[Military] Month Long Alliance/Asari Maneuvers Begin

Hey, my racist grandpa made lists like that too!

Anyway I think we shouldn't go overboard on the "asari are obsolete" thing. They're still the N°1 economy, they stil have the third biggest navy of the known galaxy, they're still major players even though they're hardly the top dog anymore.
And I don't think the reaper war showed that their military doctrine was useless, it showed that their reliance on their matriarchs was a crippling handicap when the situation was 1) unique and 2) urgent.
The reaper were a complete unknown and they were advancing FAST. For comparison the rachni war took around three centuries, and conventional fighting doctrines were relevant. The reaper war took a year or so, and everything we knew about war was almost made useless.
In conventional war however, which is the general case, I think the asari would be amazing allies because their top generals could draw on centuries of strategy. Well, as long as they knock off their nasty prothean beacon hoarding habit...

Interesting insight, Stitcher. I hope our captains can still learn a thing or two. That’s kind of the purpose, learn from each other here.

As I saw it, nobody was offending the N’s, it was a simple question, Patriot.

I wouldn’t reduce the Spec-op teams to the level of ‘hordes of lowlifes’. That tactic of deploying small mixed teams in many hot zones with various species with different abilities, to complement one another was vital to keep the Reapers at bay while we built the Crucible. If anything, it’s an example where a combination of forces with different doctrines offered great success. No species or military force was able to walk alone, that’s a fact. That’s something that should be carried over in my opinion (And it’s been done with such combined exercises). It’s taking away from nobody but will help many.

The best military is that which never has to be deployed in anger.
That’s how we asari think mostly. We are a peaceful people generally and that may be part of the issue we have in the way of thinking when discussing all this with some humans.
Your kind seems much more diverse in that regard, having more of the extremely militant people and also the opposing end, peacelovers who even go further than we do and reject all kinds of military.

Living together peacefully is better than warfare. But if we have to fight, we have the means to. Hate-speech like Sandmans’s about how inferior or inadequate it may be is his opinion - noted. There can be examples listed where it worked well and examples where it didn’t. That goes for every military force in the galaxy, humanity’s as well the turian’s or whoever.

Sandman, you always just see a total downfall of the asari in every aspect. I sometimes wonder why you seem so obsessed with that and always come out to repeat this while flailing personal insults. It’s a mix of looking supremacist and just show despise for asari in particular. Our ways to adapt and work galactic politics may not be your ways, but they work for us. We are probably more flexible than you think and see on the surface. The asari Republics are no Matriarchal Monarchy after all. We have seen cultural changes in the galaxy many times in history and we are still here.

You can raise good points that would be interesting to discuss but you’re too self centered to be inspiring, too off-putting to make one want to engage. Just claiming to have the right angle on everything and calling the other names doesn’t make it the galactic truth.

Seriously though Arina, what's your position (or the official position at least) on how the asari command handled the reaper war? No negative feedback, no "maybe we fucked up a little and need to change stuff"?

I, and numerous others, have stated on several occasions that mistakes were made by us, so that is neither a secret no do I or any other official deny that. It is nothing that makes us special in comparison though.
Councilor Tevos stepped down and a few Matriachs on Thessia chose... to live elsewhere, those that were still alive anyway.

Of course things are changing, as I said. Several generations will be affected by the Reaper War and the events around it. They will as well become Matriachs some day. They'll be able to tell the generations in a thousand years from now first hand from this war and the events that shaped our time. Yes, things will change, in a scope that may be hard to grasp now.

Ok, but what mistakes exactly? The Republic's usual answer about the beacon is that sure it was a mistake but it's old news now can we please talk about something else. It was two years ago, we still don't know what's on the damn thing. Or the fact that you refused to join the war effort at first, the answer is that the republic a decentralized and don't have a unified army and that it's good how it is thank you.
Listen I'm sorry if I annoy you here, I don't want to do asari bashing, but I think that by insisting on washing your dirty laundry in private, you make the rest of the galaxy think that you're going business as usual. Which means for us that next time such a threat presents itself, you'll do the exact same crap. I'm sorry but it's scary.
Now as a galaxy citizen I don't want the asari leadership to whip themselves or anything. I just want to hear representatives expose calmly what exactly went wrong, and what exact steps have been taken to plug the gaps, that's it.
I mean just look at the turians or the krogans or the geths or the quarians, they took huge steps. If a new threat arrives I'm confident those guys will step up.
I don't have that impression about the asari, or salarians for that matter, who won't really admit any mistake either...

Well then.

To take the usual bevy of inanity in the most convenient order:

A position built upon their virtual stranglehold of the eezo trade and which, given the recent availability of other sources to Citadel Space, is decidedly uncertain.

Had. Past tense.

And, once again, immensely debatable.
A minor, nagging, point here: Thessia came under direct attack well after the initial Reaper incursion and the fall of Sol system. That is to say that the Republics had weeks of time and the battles over Palaven and Tuchanka to inform them.

The fact that they still fell at roughly the same speed the Alliance did indicates that something in either their military or political structure (or, to be frank, both) is incredibly ineffective.

Oh yes the Rachni War.

Also known as the war that went so improbably well for the asari and Citadel Space that they decided to uplift the krogan just to invite them to the post campaign victory barbeque.

Seriously.

This is hardly the first time that this has happened.

Well of course you think so. He's doing everything short of actual tonguing in that post.

Before we go on I'd just like to stop here and contemplate this absolutely mind shattering look into your skull.

The best military, my dear, is the military that is most effective at actually fulfilling it's duties, not the one with the nicest reputation. The best military is the one that can defend the territories it is charged to protect and eliminate the external threats that endanger it. The best military is the one that will win.
The ones in power anyway and my God does it explain a lot.
The asari practice cultural assimilation and modification with the option of bringing in their allies to do the grunt work should the situation call for it.

However the times when this fails, when the Republics encounter an enemy that can't be talked down and can't be effectively confronted by their friends, it fails hard.

...Good God woman do you have a glass ego? Are you legitimately that insecure about the capabilities of your own government that a person who raises valid points (points that go largely unaddressed I might add) gets lumped in with the likes of Cerberus and the most cartoonish extremists of Terra Firma? The smug, half credit psychology examination certainly isn't improving anything.

Contrary to what you believe I don't hate the Republics, I don't hate asari as a whole, and I don't even hate you (although you certainly seem to believe it given how hard you're shilling yourself as the victim here). I just think you (and a great many others in the Republics) could best be described as cultural narcissists and are incapable of handling anything that threatens their idealized view of the galaxy.

I actually very much respect a fair number of asari, certainly the great many I employ, and definitely a handful of the ones here the boards. Not because I agree with them on everything, contrary to what you think I legitimately don't care about that, but because, agree or disagree, they do so intelligently.

As in they listen and then actually respond.

There's none of this point blank denial of counter points with no explanation, there's none of this attempting to sell arrogance and propaganda as actual facts, there's certainly none of this thing where apparently the onus is on me to encourage and coddle grown adults so that they feel emotionally secure enough to respond.

It may shock you but the fact that you can't actually come up with a decent argument is not my fault Ms. Caenis.

I-

Oh for the love of God your own government hid a Prothean Beacon for generations after enacting what might have been the most blatantly hypocritical legislation in history. That is a bit above and beyond the dirty laundry of most species, particularly after the Reaper War.

...Christ.

I miss Corona.

Nikolai. Darling. You'll run yourself ragged keeping this up. Look up from your 'tool and try a little traditional asari meditation. Goddess knows it did wonders for me in my first thread.

The asari posters in this thread have made clear to me the brilliance of asari strategy. Indeed, it is self-evidently not based around actually fighting, or god knows they would be embarrassed for themselves, nor of winning a war with anyone larger than 'this one pirate once, I swear to god we killed him'. No, the (entirely functional) asari combat doctrine is to throw a bunch of maidens at the problem to die heroes deaths so they can claim they helped, and then wait for whatever new race they've roped onto their side to solve all the problems for them!

This worked in the Rachni Wars (Salarians grab Krogan and save the day), the Krogan Rebellions (Turians protect the Salarians and save the day) and the Reaper War (Everyone else works together and creates a superweapon that saves the day).

It is a truly brilliant strategy, that requires next to now work at all on their part.

Ok now you're getting overboard guys... Even a cursory knowledge of the rachni war show that the asari were amazing and brave, they held back an entire insect invader which motto was "losing most of my army is barely a setback" for centuries! By the way had the rachni won, there is no reason they wouldn't have made their way to the Arcturus Relay eventually, when our ancestors were using swords and armors.
It's one thing to criticize the shortcomings of the Republics during the Reaper War, another to write the entire asari species out of the galaxy history.

Now I kind of wish we could hear the opinion of non human and non asari members...

Darling, the asari didn't do diddly squat in the rachni war. They made their new leashed pets the salarians and the turians grab the big mean krogan and had them fight the war for them. Are you sensing a common theme here? It is a very rare asari, I find, that will lift a finger herself when she could easily manipulate someone else into doing the heavy lifting. Some might call that brutish or uncivilized, I call it practical.

You do remember the krogan, don't you? The race that was almost singelhandedly responsible for deadlocking the Reapers as much as they were? Fought bitterly on two fronts on Tuchanka and Palaven, participated in the Miracle, kept said planets from falling practically until the second of the Crucible event?

Now, remind me. How quick did the Reapers tag-team Thessia like giant fuckbots?

Oh, wait, I might give people like Miss T'Nara ideas for their next movie. Scratch that.

I've always admired asari military strategy, actually. Advancing away from the enemy whilst tricking them with false pleas of surrender.

...

At least, I hope they're false.

Lady Celeste, didn’t you pay attention somewhere along history classes? We fought the rachni and the krogan ourselves and had our share of successes and bloodshed.

Another funny thing is, that the krogan rebellions were something neither the turians nor the salarians could end on their own either, and still some blame us.
The uplifting of the krogan for the rachni wars wasn’t even an asari idea or doing, we fought them conventionally.

The Crucible. Yes, totally, like as if anyone could have done this on their own. Cooperation from everyone was necessary. My whole point. The asari contributed their share to that project so don’t talk stupid.

The point for all these examples is: Only several species together could solve it (well, if you ask the krogan, more or less painfully).
It is that combined efforts, more working together and exchanging knowledge will help solving things faster in the future. An exercise to combine the abilities of two navies and establish fast and effective structures and trust is a good thing. We were missing this in the past.


Michelle, we made the same big mistake every species made. If you ask this question seriously, you didn’t understand where your own government failed.
The biggest mistake was that we didn’t recognize the scope of things. We of all species had a chance maybe. In my opinion a mix of several problems and traps, using the inadequacies of everyone involved was preventing the Council from raising the awareness for every species early enough. The Reaper attack was specifically designed to outmaneuver this hub. Every species, including humanity was outflanked and hit through the front door without expecting it.
When we saw what unfolded, it took too long to bundle the efforts and decide to send help.

There was the beacon cover-up. It was a betrayal on our people and the galaxy by a clique of priestesses. We have taken measures that something like this won’t happen again. There is much more scrutiny from the general public now. Fingers are watched, questions are asked and we turned quite many stones to see what else may be hidden that must come to light. So yes, it had a changing effect on asari society; the Maidens that went through the war don’t take things for granted just because it has always been like that.

I think your history is a little muddled. The Council hadn't made contact with the Turians until after the Krogan Rebellions started. For the Rachni War it was The Union and the Republics that held the line until We discovered the Krogan and they joined the fight.

So before you start using history to support an argument, at least make sure it is actual history, and not imagined.

Oh Stardust. We fought the rachni ourselves, yes. And how well did that turn out, exactly? So many people can talk big about the huntress model, the legendary asari commando units, but as Nat explained above, that cannot be the be-all and end-all. They needed pet krogan to defeat the rachni. They needed pet turians and salarians to defeat the krogan. They needed pet everyone to beat the Reapers for them. The asari contribution to the Crucible and the war at large was the latest and most token barring the quarians. The only reason I'm not ranting about them right now is because, let's be honest, everybody else thinks they're prats for their performance in the war too.

There is a difference, I think, in the actual Republics and the Republics you want to believe in. The Republics you want to believe in are the image they project, one of peace and love and diplomacy and co-operation and all that lovely sugary dreck. The real Republics are so breathtakingly arrogant that one wonders how their heads can fit through any given doorway. They blatantly use people or whole races like pets, like playthings, using their own manufactured political status to make themselves immune to criticism for their ways.

A minor slip-up, Zeele. But one you used to divert attention from what I was actually saying. My people used your people so that we could have a big, dumb, brutish race to do all the real fighting for us. Once we found the turians, a lovely useful militaristic race that was easier to control, we let the two of you sterilize our temporary assets because they weren't useful any more. Goddess, sometimes it feels like asari histories were penned by a bloody sociopath.

Got that for you.

Two things:

A. Probably not since they evidently didn't care enough to open up their own relay and didn't initially attack until it was breached.
B. I...don't particularly know what your point is, unless it's that all races discovered post Rachni-War owe their existence to the Republics. In which case two additional things:
a. You're an idiot.
b. The salarians and krogan would be a better target for that devotion no?
Oh please, nobody's being that dramatic. The asari have their share of strengths,

it just so happens that almost none of them are military related.

...except they very much did.
And, again, look how well that went.
A point that's somewhat hilarious in retrospect considering that the asari were one of the very last additions to the alliance and only decided to formally cooperate with their peers when Thessia was literally on fire.

Considering the actual contribution in proportional relation to the amount of credit being claimed you're doing an exceptional job of proving [Redacted]'s point.
You really don't get it do you dear?

You really, genuinely, don't.

If there's a problem in the future the Republics's involvement in the resolution will be minimal.
Please Ms. Caenis. Credit where credit is due: the Alliance actually dealt with the issue of Cerberus. They were hamstrung by the organization's influence and pervasiveness in the SA mili-industrial complex and political spheres and thousands died for it but at the end of the day the Alliance was the one who put the final round into Cerberus's head.

The asari would have likely taken their secret to the grave if circumstances had allowed them and, considering how studiously they (and you) are trying to sweep the whole matter under the rug, I would say they've learned next to nothing as well.

Oh no you don't, you see this conversation isn't about what could have been done prior to the initial Reaper breach (something that everyone does share responsibility for yes) but what was done afterwards.

And, no, not every species was "outflanked and hit through the front door without expecting it" (whatever the hell that means) because some (and by some I mean the elcor, hanar, turians, krogan, volus, and Terminus as a whole) got the memo that Earth was currently in the process of being razed by mechanical godsquid and would not, in fact, be returning any calls for the foreseeable future, then prepared accordingly.

Presumably the asari were left off the mailing list on accident.

Interesting because you sure as hell moved your collective blue asses when you had a direct incentive.
You misspelled that, I took the liberty of making some corrections.

I would imagine they're rather pissed off actually, considering that they're now being collectively regarded with distaste for a decision they had literally no say in and were unaware of.

Ironic considering how much the Republics prides itself on transparency and representation.

I'm literally ten feet away from a personal liquor stock right now.



Close enough right?

I really can't tell who is winning the argument, the person who can't argue or the person who has to drink after arguing.



so much flanking they came from the front???