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Extreme Augmentation, Indentured Service on the Rise in Terminus
by Darya Baryshnikova, Tayseri Times Pentalion District, Omega Station- The Castoran Hotel was a veritable hive of activity this afternoon as the annual Cybernetic, Bioethics, and Transsapientism Conference concluded it’s third and final day of discussion. A landmark function that hosts representatives from no less than three dozen politically significant Terminus and Abyss entities including corporate bodies such as the Legiatis Group, Multinational Organizations like the Ad’Thoro Pact, and, of course, a selection of some of the most prevalent transsapient groups active in the galaxy today like Typhoon Rise and S+. In addition to applying new common law standards concerning sapient experimentation, the unveiling of several much anticipated breakthroughs in the field of morphic chimerism, and formally awarding of the celebrated Genomic Constellation to Doctors Maklash Yaelah and Induroc Basravix for their work in creating and distributing the celebrated Cadesis Rahkn line of augmentic facilities as well as their related sapientarian work; the commission also released their findings concerning the increased prevalence of the practice known as Relicae’s Process. Pioneered by the eponymous Dr. Tarquex Relicae the process involves the total excision of the brain and brain stem, followed by the relocation of said tissue to an artificial frame and cranial housing. Originally developed as a means to preserve the lives of patients whose bodies had been damaged beyond all reasonable repair, over time the operation’s alternative applications became apparent. When individuals undergo Relicae’s Process, their cerebral tissue is encased in a hardened regulatory shell with attached infrastructure for interface with motive platforms. Over time, these men and women may operate their bodies with a degree of force and precision unmatched by the nonintegrated; providing them with a keen edge over their primarily organic counterparts. Of course, given the extreme nature of the surgery involved, the creation and procurement of these individuals has largely been restricted to the status of a niche industry. However, given the extensive social, civil, and economic devastation left in the wake of the recent war it would appear that, according to the Conference’s report, the process has experienced something of a resurgence with a number of transsapient oriented groups, companies, and worlds sponsoring uninjured individuals for the process. The patrons provide room, board, and health while, In turn, the pilots agree to pilot motive armor until their contractually mandated term of service expires after which they may continue with their parent organization or seek employment elsewhere. An overwhelming majority stay. The suits themselves range from heavy, mechanized affairs to agile, CNT corded, bipedal platforms but, almost without exclusion, most are fundamentally military in nature. “To be honest it’s really not as bad as people make it out to be. I mean, I didn’t turn into some kind of souless monster or anything after the operation.” Stated Jiang Du, one such operator in the employ of Wǔshì Securities. “I still have all my senses, they’re really pretty pointed about getting those in for the mental part of it, I’ve still got my friends, I still lead a mostly normal life really. Adjustment’s a bit of a kick in the balls but I’ve my genetic material’s on ice so kids aren’t out of the question. Plus I get a roof over my head, all the food I could want, money in my account, and a twelve foot suit of armor with jetpacks to pilot on top of it with a civvie suit for off hours. So yeah, I’d call it a pretty good deal.” However many prominent abolitionist and sapient’s rights groups have leveled harsh criticisms at the institution in its entirety. “What we are seeing here is, essentially, the implementation of slave soldiers as a generally accepted commodity.” Said Mr. Wakarh Tan’til of the Torchbearers, “The issue is, the people who’re piloting these suits are desperate men and women that these groups plucked from the refugee camps, from the shelters, from the rubble, sat them down and offered them the world on the platter. Why wouldn’t they say no? They’d be stronger, faster, more durable than they’ve ever been before. And sure the Process has been rendered down to the point where there’s minimal risk but that discounts the fact that its completely irreversible save through extraordinary methods with traditionally low chances of success. These are people being exploited at their most vulnerable and turned into nothing more than tools for the rest of their lives. This is not merely inhumane, it’s utterly barbaric.” Current estimates place the number of heavily augmented troops in the low millions; all within extra-Citadel space. This number is expected to increase substantially over the next several years. Presslink News Aggregator: Collecting headlines from across the galaxy. ((Official administration news feed. Please consult the Site Rules for submitting an article.)) |
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Well, actually, I guess its a question about adding mechanical components to the organic layout or putting organic components (the brain) into a mechanical layout. Maybe? Thats what I'm taking from this debate.
Like, the first one is just improving on what you already have, so like modifying a set of clothing-no. Err, hold on, I can think of a better comparison. Okay, I suck at comparisons. |
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M'lady wrote:Like, the first one is just improving on what you already have, so like modifying a set of clothing-no. Err, hold on, I can think of a better comparison. It's an apt if simplistic reduction. Think of augmentation that falls shy of full conversion as alterations to a particularly favored suit you were and full conversion as getting tailored for another suit. You're still clothed, nothing's fundamentally changed about you you're just, well,Okay, I suck at comparisons. dressed a bit more sharply. Apparently I am terrible at comparisons as well. One must therefore be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves. -Niccolo Machiavelli |
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That's why they pay you the big bucks, boss.
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Mr_Sandman wrote:
Simplified does not mean more efficient. To be able to pump the blood around for it to be constantly able to nourish the remaining organics, it has to be able to actively exert force and pressure on the bloodstream, and that bloodstream still needs constant access to oxygen. A totally enclosed casing does not provide either of those.Garden Guard wrote:The major organs are. It's the blood vessels themselves, down to each capillary required. Between the immense amount of work that would be need to recreate such a system synthetically, along with the VERY short window to connect the brain to it after it's removed and to set up the entire system so that it works. A full conversion cybernetic individual is virtually entirely synthetic save for the brain. Many of the functions of their former organs are irrelevant, many of the analogues fulfil multiple roles, and their circulatory system is simplified as a result. Also they have regulatory casings for their brains.Amazing. It's almost like people thought this through. The performance gains seem embellished to downright unrealistic though Because you have a truly pitiful imagination? |
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Okay I think I've got it. It's like learning to rock climb vs. getting a jetpack! One requires skill and a lot of time and effort and training and risk of death, while the other relies soley on hardware and VIs(hopefully) and will get you to the top much quicker and with the risk being in how well its made as opposed to how hard you've trained and
Okay there has to be a good comparison out there somewhere. |
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K_O wrote:That's why they pay you the big bucks, boss. Well that and so I don't do anything extraordinarily embarrassing on HV.Garden Guard wrote:Simplified does not mean more efficient. To be able to pump the blood around for it to be constantly able to nourish the remaining organics, it has to be able to actively exert force and pressure on the bloodstream, and that bloodstream still needs constant access to oxygen. A totally enclosed casing does not provide either of those. Seriously This Was One Page Ago, You Have Successfully Argued Us In a Circle
Brain oxygenation involves a high efficiency synthetic blood substitute and respiration matrices embedded near the surface at the hull, typically in multiple spots with redundancies and implemented filters. Like hardsuits the armor can almost always be sealed against vacuum though combined with the expanded stores of compressed air and the general lack of organic tissue pilots can persist for an appreciably longer length of time. Also what makes you think that synthetics can't do any of that.
No, there's already established limits due to the the organic parts still left. It's a brain in what's basically a hermetically sealed life support casing. That's really the only organic part to manage. And to achieve total parity with full conversion individuals and troops the sheer volume of augments required necessitate you basically already being full conversion yourself albeit a fair bit more patchwork.M'lady wrote:Okay I think I've got it. It's like learning to rock climb vs. getting a jetpack! One requires skill and a lot of time and effort and training and risk of death, while the other relies soley on hardware and VIs(hopefully) and will get you to the top much quicker and with the risk being in how well its made as opposed to how hard you've trained and That's not...quite it I don't think IOkay there has to be a good comparison out there somewhere. you know what let's just stick with the clothes metaphor. You were right the first time, clothes work. One must therefore be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves. -Niccolo Machiavelli |
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Those whom are not gods should take significant pause in attempting to become so without the wisdom necessary for such a task.
Quite sardonic to see those most abused by paradigm aspire so fervently to become the abusers themselves without any of the tools endemic to the process, but of course that is what children do in the absence of true leadership. No thing exists that tide or time cannot erase. Such is the fragility of history. |
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Nat wrote:So lemme get this straight. You had surgery while conscious. And didn't flip out or have an instinctual fear response because you were 'harmonious' with your body.
I did have an instinctual fear response, but because I'd been extensively prepared for the procedure psychologically - and yes, harmony helped - I didn't 'flip out', no. As I said it's not something I'd care to go through if there wasn't a major benefit at the end, but yes, after the interviews and meditation I was able to watch someone make alterations to my inside bits without giving in to that response.I'm not saying major surgery isn't a very difficult experience mentally (and mine was on the easy end of the internal surgery scale, at that); I don't claim superiority to anyone in this regard. But the question was raised, to the credibility of my 'gut' reaction as a measure, whether I'd been through it, and the answer is yes I have. And I'll reply to you rather than Sandy, because you're addressing the same point. I'm sure he'll keep going anyway... Nat wrote:The body is part of your identity not part of your sapience.
Honestly, I feel it is - to me, sapience is the sum of our inner self's (for want of a more precise term) interaction with external stimuli, so I think the influence the body has on how we behave is so powerful as to be fundamentally inextricable from the definition of a person.But to address your main point, no I don't feel sapience is diminished by transsapientism (obviously a term I find misleading, but let's run with it). I don't think the people who've undergone this procedure are 'less sapient' in any respect than they were, but they're different, radically different. I would say their sapience has been fundamentally altered. And that's not in itself a bad thing, because (again, my belief) our sapience is always changing, evolving. (I'm swayed by the notion that sapience is the changing state, not any given 'static' snapshot of it, but that's another matter.) Sometimes in little ways, sometimes in big, but always changing. It's living. I don't dispute that you're the same person you always were, but in my view, the very definition of 'person' includes constant fluidity. And you're quite right that artificial means can be a tremendous blessing, whether they be to rectify physical disabilities, or augment an otherwise healthy person - but it's that very magnitude of impact that- K_O wrote:Augments that let you blow turians = okay
-alright, same basic point, so let's try to address why that's not what I said.Augments that improve you as a human being = unnatural perversion of the divine engine of our bodies I think augmentation - even right up to replacing one's whole body - isn't inherently bad, or damaging. Let's put that to rest, okay? Augments that improve you as a human being = fine. But I also feel that, even in very limited and voluntary applications, people going through it need to understand the magnitude of what they're undertaking. That's why all but the most basic voluntary augmentations are required to be preceded by psychological evaluation and counselling. Major alterations carry enormous prerequisites - even when they're unquestionably beneficial, such as the example you (Nat, I mean) cited of someone essentially trapped in their body being 'freed' by augmentation - it's my understanding that extensive psychological care required as part of the treatment. You don't not do it as a result, but this sort of thing is literally playing with the entire essence of a person's existence, and it must must must be done properly. In this case, what I'm fearing is that that magnitude is being grossly underrepresented by those offering the augmentation. Not only that, the form of indentured servitude being employed seems almost tailor-made to exacerbate the potential for anguish. Nat, you raised your own experience - if you can (and I accept it's not a trivial thing), put aside all the negative aspects of what you went through in terms of the surgical procedure and its effects on your life, and think just about the enormity of the experience, how it altered your experience of life. I'm not saying it diminished you as a person, or made you less sapient, but it changed you forever, right? It was massive. I'm not without some pretty intimate experience of this sort of thing. Do you believe something like that - even if, changing the example, it was something a person sought out - could ever be 'easy'? Do you believe a person going through that should do so under the auspices of a company that's entered them into servitude - slavery - as part and parcel of their new body? That is what I find so disturbing. Not the modification in theory, but - based on these reports - the context in which it's being carried out in practice. The magnitude of the modification comes into it only in that it magnifies the potential for harm. That's all. I don't think these aren't people anymore. I don't think cybernetics eat your soul, or whatever (I just got done arguing that synthetics do have souls, anyway). I don't think nature is some kind of immaculate template that can't be deviated from - even if you want to ascribe some kind of guiding spirit to evolution, hey, we evolved the ability to do stuff like this. But we're capable of doing ourselves great harm in a great many ways, going hand in hand with progress, and I think - done wrong - this could be among the most damaging. That's why I'm very upset at how, so far as it seems, it's being undertaken. I'd be delighted to find out that the people undergoing this are being provided with full psychological support - not just what the organisers think is adequate, but support that proves to actually be adequate to the enormity of the issues - and that not a one of them ever suffers as a result, truly I would, but what I'm hearing doesn't sound that way. (Incidentally Kate, the 'blow turians' mod was a non-invasive one.) ![]() |
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asari_promiscuity wrote:And I'll reply to you rather than Sandy, because you're addressing the same point. I'm sure he'll keep going anyway... Oh I will, never fear; but do take some solace in the fact that I'm leaving most of the others to dine on this particularly juicy bit of roadkill. My issue with you is rather succinctly summed up.Namely that you treat us all like blind, unaware children and act as if you can make everyone forget the things you said if you put on a nice little song and dance. Specifically these things, right here. If that's how you feel, it probably doesn't like you much either... But if what you're trying to express is the notion that 'you' are hosted entirely in your brain and the body is just some kind of squishy mech to carry you around, my understanding is that that model's wildly outdated. I believe it's now widely accepted that the body, exclusive of the brain, has a much more profound and sophisticated relationship with our sapience than reporting when we're hungry or tired or have stepped on a faBrix brick hiding in the carpet. And that's a major reason why I find this so disturbing, I'm not seeing a lot of evidence that that's being taken into account - these people are being asked to amputate a huge portion of their selves, and the assumption seems to be that it's just some disposable shell that won't affect "who they are".
Let's not forget them shall we? You are arrogant beyond belief in that you feel it is perfectly acceptable to talk down to us as if we cannot understand you; as if we cannot see you blatantly shifting your position with changes in prevailing opinions. You are an outrageous bigot for your presumption that the totality of the self is largely dependent on the body rather than the essence of that person; ie their mind. And, frankly, you are also the worst kind of bigot. Every bit as discriminatory as the more vocal only more polite about it, no really you're on their side you don't think less of them not really. I mean really all you have is their best interests at heart right? You disgust me. There is really no other way to say it, you utterly disgust me. Rank hypocrisy aside. Laziness aside. Sanctimony aside. Aversion to change and all of that crap aside you are, and remain, a fundamentally dishonest person. Now Dearly BelovedStill. I'm no opponent of tweaking mother galaxy's handiwork here and there, I'm pretty non-standard myself in a variety of ways. But this is... this scenario repels me, on a gut level, and I think it's a case where the gut is onto something that I ought to listen to. I feel our minds are bodies are very deeply joined, and mixed with one another, and severing that connection is a much more profound process that seems to be being recognised by the people orchestrating this.
Let Us Gather Here Together But my conscious self being as harmonious as I can contrive with my physical self, I put the experience in what I felt was its proper context, and overall I'd describe the experience as 'otherworldly' without any particular negative associations. So That We Might RememberBut if what you're trying to express is the notion that 'you' are hosted entirely in your brain and the body is just some kind of squishy mech to carry you around, my understanding is that that model's wildly outdated. I believe it's now widely accepted that the body, exclusive of the brain, has a much more profound and sophisticated relationship with our sapience than reporting when we're hungry or tired or have stepped on a faBrix brick hiding in the carpet. And Hold A RequiemThe magnitude of the modification comes into it only in that it magnifies the potential for harm. That's all. I don't think these aren't people anymore. I don't think cybernetics eat your soul, or whatever (I just got done arguing that synthetics do have souls, anyway). I don't think nature is some kind of immaculate template that can't be deviated from - even if you want to ascribe some kind of guiding spirit to evolution, hey, we evolved the ability to do stuff like this. For Honesty(Incidentally Kate, the 'blow turians' mod was a non-invasive one.) One must therefore be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves. -Niccolo Machiavelli |
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asari_promiscuity wrote:(Incidentally Kate, the 'blow turians' mod was a non-invasive one.)
Oh, okay. That makes it all better.[/sincerity] |
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Ok, so now that my 'tool's rebooted and no longer configured for salarian fingers, here's Nassa D'Veyra's two creds on the whole thing.
Procedures like this aren't augmentation. Like, they are literally different things - augmentation is getting a replacement limb or genemodded as all fuck (like this marvellous specimen of asarihood right here). Replacing your flesh-and-blood body with a machine is literally integration. If this was genetic instead of cyber, it'd be like adding another set of arms or the ability to digest chlorophyll. It's not augmenting anything, it's adding entirely new functions that your brain is biologically not equipped to deal with. (Plus it'd be pricey as fuck. I mean, for the cost of the surgery and maintenance and all those tactile feedback sensors, the corp could afford like three of those mechs with VI drivers, or the same thing as powered armoursuits or whatever. Let alone the cost of having so many incredibly qualified surgeons on staff... Tides, I don't see this being remotely profitable) Major Nassa D'Veyra, Eclipse Commando. Interested in our services? Please contact [127.64g.950/ua.ε] for more information. |
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Mr_Sandman wrote:
I stand by that - although in light of Nat's objection, I'll clarify that when I said "affect who they are", I didn't mean to suggest they were being transformed into a 'different person', or being lessened. (Amputate was a poor choice of word in that regard; sometimes we choose to discard things, sometimes we don't have a choice, I'm not saying that must be considered a loss to the soul.)asari_promiscuity wrote:And that's a major reason why I find this so disturbing, I'm not seeing a lot of evidence that that's being taken into account - these people are being asked to amputate a huge portion of their selves, and the assumption seems to be that it's just some disposable shell that won't affect "who they are". But Nat said the body was part of one's identity, not her sapience. So leaving aside what's considered sapience and where it resides and using those terms - this is, then, a massive and fundamental alteration to a person's identity. That follows logically. That's what I'm saying, and if you want to pick out quotes where I've expressed that poorly and claim it makes me a liar, well, whatever floats your hull. Mr_Sandman wrote:You disgust me.
So much so that you have to dissect my posts to demonstrate it on a daily basis, it seems. I'm not particularly fond of you either (although 'disgust' is a bit strong), but honestly I'd rather just go back to not trying to engage you, if it's all the same. ![]() |
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Of course you didn't my dear. Of course you didn't.
asari_promiscuitySo much so that you have to dissect my posts to demonstrate it on a daily basis, it seems. I'm not particularly fond of you either (although 'disgust' is a bit strong), but honestly I'd rather just go back to not trying to engage you, if it's all the same. Sadly no, you see unlike yourself I do not subscribe to the school of thought that a problem, a genuine problem, is remedied through apathy and inattention.In simpler terms: if you're going to be a horrendous bigot, someone really should say something. Corona wrote:
Procedures like this aren't augmentation. Like, they are literally different things - augmentation is getting a replacement limb or genemodded as all fuck (like this marvellous specimen of asarihood right here). Replacing your flesh-and-blood body with a machine is literally integration. The nucleus of the individual and main directive force are still organic. It is augmentation Major though the distinction is semantic and political at best anyway.(Plus it'd be pricey as fuck. I mean, for the cost of the surgery and maintenance and all those tactile feedback sensors, the corp could afford like three of those mechs with VI drivers, or the same thing as powered armoursuits or whatever. Let alone the cost of having so many incredibly qualified surgeons on staff... Tides, I don't see this being remotely profitable) Correct me if I'm wrong Major but Eclipse does not specialize in biotechnology nor do they maintain any significant transsapient oriented support apparatus do they? One must therefore be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves. -Niccolo Machiavelli |
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Mr_Sandman wrote:The nucleus of the individual and main directive force are still organic. It is augmentation Major though the distinction is semantic and political at best anyway.
It's definitely not augmentation if it lets you do something an organic brain just isn't equipped to handle (like, say, having extra limbs or whatever). You'd need a VI backing them up to compensate for that, which kinda makes me wonder why they need the squishy bit and all the associated life support in there anyway - wouldn't it be easier done through remote uplink? Tides, if a frog or a bucket can whip up a commandable combat drone in an hour, it's not like the techs hard or nothing. Correct me if I'm wrong Major but Eclipse does not specialize in biotechnology nor do they maintain any significant transsapient oriented support apparatus do they?
Nope. But we do specialise in regular mechs - the far cheaper, easier to maintain kind - and some very well-qualified individuals (like this marvellous example of asarihood here). So I'd say my opinion on pay rates and mech combat counts for something, you know? Major Nassa D'Veyra, Eclipse Commando. Interested in our services? Please contact [127.64g.950/ua.ε] for more information.
Click To Read Out Of Character Comment by
Corona
iPhones are the worst! My thuuuuuuumbs! =(
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Mechs, my dear, are a liability, predictable and all have the same weak spot.
Wenn ich dir sagte dass ich dich liebte, wurdest du dasselbe sagen?
Click To Read Out Of Character Comment by
Isadore
Pfff, wish i stil lhad my iphone, at least they are consistant. I do all my posts from an LG Optimus Extreme, and it randomly decides iv wrote enough and closes the keyboard whil im typing, INFURIATING. Did it twice whil i was writing this
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Isadore wrote:Mechs, my dear, are a liability, predictable and all have the same weak spot.
Same with you krogan. Hi-yoooo! ...nah but seriously. Elite units (like me) kick all kinds of tzu, but wars are won by having more guns on the ground than the other guy. Throw enough LOKIs at one of these super-Augs and you'll kill them and still come out ahead credits-wise. Major Nassa D'Veyra, Eclipse Commando. Interested in our services? Please contact [127.64g.950/ua.ε] for more information. |
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It takes about the same number of LOKIs to kill a full cyborg as it does to kill a raging krogan. Not exactly a small number sweetheart. It would only be cost effective against one lightly armored full cyborg, any more and it coats waaaaay too much
Wenn ich dir sagte dass ich dich liebte, wurdest du dasselbe sagen? |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Vigilance Ever vigilant, for they are watching. |
Depends how you do it. Upgrade their targeting matrices and it's a lot simpler. Or even better, overload the cyborg thing. Drain it of electricity or something.
C-Sec mail [here], personal [here], FEMES [here]. Is that all? Can I go? |
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Corona wrote:It's definitely not augmentation if it lets you do something an organic brain just isn't equipped to handle (like, say, having extra limbs or whatever). Major, you say that like the organic mind is some immutable, unalterable construct. As I said earlier the sapient brain is incredibly adaptable. It can recover from some of the worst traumas, work around fundamental blocks or gaps in its capabilities, compensate for weaknesses and exploit strengths.In short it's really not as impossible as you seem to think. [quote]You'd need a VI backing them up to compensate for that, which kinda makes me wonder why they need the squishy bit and all the associated life support in there anyway - wouldn't it be easier done through remote uplink? Tides, if a frog or a bucket can whip up a commandable combat drone in an hour, it's not like the techs hard or nothing. Oh apologies that was a little on the nose, what I meant to say Major was that that's not at all the case and drones, while possessing a wide array of utilities, are still constrained by vastly inferior processing power that limits everything from relative autonomy, to the extent of their real time adaptability, to things like agility, coordination, or lateral thinking. I'm not at all disparaging their usefulness Major, my business widely employs unmanned entities as well, I'm merely illustrating the fact that drones are neither the end all be all of warfare nor do they preclude the implementation of the heavily augmented by the singular fact of their existence. Nope. But we do specialise in regular mechs - the far cheaper, easier to maintain kind - and some very well-qualified individuals (like this marvellous example of asarihood here). So I'd say my opinion on pay rates and mech combat counts for something, you know? I'm very happy for you Major but that wasn't exactly my point.To a one, basically every organization, group, colony, or what have you employing these men and women had strong ties to the transsapient community before the implementation of these programs. That is to say, they are well acquainted to working with heavily augmented troops and have the necessary infrastructure already in place. So, at the risk of condescension, of course it wouldn't be profitable for Eclipse. As you yourself said you basically have well none of those things and no familiarity or experience with them. ...nah but seriously. Elite units (like me) kick all kinds of tzu, but wars are won by having more guns on the ground than the other guy. Throw enough LOKIs at one of these super-Augs and you'll kill them and still come out ahead credits-wise. Oh without a doubt Major.Without a single solitary doubt. Vigilance wrote:Depends how you do it. Upgrade their targeting matrices and it's a lot simpler. Or even better, overload the cyborg thing. Drain it of electricity or something. Also seriously. This board. It's like talking to a brick wall sometimes. One must therefore be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves. -Niccolo Machiavelli |
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Let me quote sandy here by saying, EMP SHIELDING
Wenn ich dir sagte dass ich dich liebte, wurdest du dasselbe sagen? |